Speaker: 00:00:07

Welcome to the mesmerizing marketing

podcast, where we take a deep dive

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into the latest marketing trends,

tools, and tips, and provide you with

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the top resources you need to thrive

and make your marketing mesmerizing.

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And now here's your host Dimple Dang.

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For the audience, like tell us a

little bit, some personal information

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about you, because I think there's

so much information that's out there

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on the web that people can Google.

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But let's talk about maybe when you were

a child, were you always entrepreneurial?

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Like when did you get the streak to say,

okay, I want to start my own companies.

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Yeah, when I was a child, when I was

six or seven years old, my parent took

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me to, I was very agitated and very

hard to manage as a child, very rebel.

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And they took me to, I don't know how

you call that in English, but it's

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basically a guy who looks into your

eye, into the iris of your eye and based

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with like a microscope or something.

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Optometrist?

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No, it's iridologist.

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Okay.

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Iridolog in French, that's iridologist,

which it's basically there's, there,

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they have the science of looking at

your iris and reading what's in there.

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It's, yeah, it's, it's

not regular medicine.

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Let's call it, it's esoteric somehow.

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And that guy looked in my eye

and said, this young boy will

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never work for another person.

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That was like seven or eight.

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So you could say that it's rooted

back in my DNA and in my childhood.

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When I was in my, when I was in

my 12 to like 17, 18, I was a Boy

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Scout and it was a Marine Boy Scout.

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So we were sailing as Boy Scouts.

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And when I got to eight, when I got

18 and up, I became Boy Scout Chief.

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So I was leading the younger Boy Scouts.

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And at the time where everybody else

in my school were going partying

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on Saturday night and getting drunk

and coming home with girls, I was.

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Heading my boy scout people.

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So I, and I was like putting

projects together, organizing camps

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in Holland, the Netherlands and the

South of France with all the boats

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and thing, the car behind the boat.

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So I basically was already

doing some creating projects

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and always taking challenges on.

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So, yeah, it's, I think some people

have entrepreneurship in them.

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They may or may not realize it.

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I did not really realize what

it was because I studied law and

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started my career as a lawyer.

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But even as a lawyer, I was always

like, okay, how do I create my own firm?

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How do I create my own practice?

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How do I own my own thing?

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So it's always been there.

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And yeah, so like I, I studied law seven

years past the bar in Paris, started my

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career at the French embassy as a lawyer,

helping French businesses to be settled

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down in the U S start a subsidiary and

start doing business there and found

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a first job at a big Chicago law firm

called Winston and Strawn in Chicago.

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That's my hometown.

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Yeah.

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So Winston and Strawn is, I

think it's the largest firm in

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Chicago as far as I remember.

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Started to work in their DC

office, then moved to their Paris

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office and did that until 2000.

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And then had the

entrepreneurship itch came back.

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And I decided to start my first company

with my co founder who has been my

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co founder for the past 23 years,

Ben, who has been my CTO since then.

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And yeah, that's how I got started

on the entrepreneurship route.

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So.

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I love that.

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I love that.

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It sounds like you were, you had like

all the characteristics there because

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most entrepreneurs Are kind of rebels

like they don't conform to the rules.

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They're actually the

ones that make the rules.

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I feel like you were the one that's

like, let me create something.

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Let me do this.

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Let me lead.

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And they're also like leaders, right?

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Cause you were leading the boy Scouts

while other people are out just

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partying and doing those things.

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So.

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I think that what you're doing

today is perfect for that.

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Let's go back into when

you were a lawyer, right?

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And talk a little bit more about that.

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I know that you were telling me earlier

that when you were a lawyer back in the

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nineties too, you came up with a business

concept to actually, um, certain things

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you were doing and in terms of like blogs.

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So can you tell us more about that?

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Because lawyers are always like

curious on how they can do marketing

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better, how they can grow their

firm, how they can use their skills.

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Absolutely.

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So to, to give you a little bit of

context to understand it, when you're

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a lawyer in France, you are allowed,

and you work for a big law firm, you

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are allowed to have your own customers.

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You have your own clients.

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That's the rule.

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That's the basic rule.

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You're not an employee.

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You're kind of an independent

contractor to the firm you're working

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for, even the, even large law firms.

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Not everybody, but most

lawyers, uh, operate this way.

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So when I got back from DC and I had, I

learned this knowledge at the, uh, when

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I, at my job at the embassy, I knew how

to do visa for people who want to go and

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live in, in, in the U S and I randomly

stumbled upon French entrepreneurs and

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business owners who wanted to move to

the U S and start their business there.

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And I knew how to get their visa.

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So I started to do a

couple of visas for them.

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And, and it was a very lucrative work for

me because on top of my 10, 000 a month.

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Regular salary I was

getting from the firm.

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I was also adding on

top of that,: 2000

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And I was basically charging

in the early days,: 2000

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And then I move up to,

to, to 4, 000 a visa.

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And I got pretty successful because

I was billing it on success.

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So I was, it was zero if I didn't get

the visa and it was 4k, if I was getting

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the visa and people loved it, but I was.

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Kind of stuck with the volumes.

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Like I didn't have a lot

of prospects coming in.

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And one day I was, I've

always loved technology.

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So in the late nineties, I was among

the first having an email, having my

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own websites and building my own website

with HTML, CSS, it was ugly as hell.

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But I, at one point there was kind

of a beginning of the blogs and you

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could actually create content and

update your website with content on it.

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It was.

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It was probably the ancestor of WordPress,

what I started using in the late nineties.

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And I created a website where I

explained all the different types

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of visa and how all the forums,

you could download all the forums.

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I give you the roadmap.

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Okay.

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Step one, you do this step.

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Do you do that?

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Step three, step four.

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These are the things you

need to be careful about.

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If you, if you buy a business, this is

the kind of business you want to buy.

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Not that kind of business.

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Uh, you can put the money into escrow.

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Here's a list of escrow you can

work with, blah, blah, blah.

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It was basically the recipe of how you

get a visa to start a company in the U.

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S.

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And my colleagues at the firm,

they looked at me like I was crazy.

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I said, why are you putting

all your knowledge on the web?

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People are going to steal it and

they're going to do it themselves.

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And they're never going to pay you.

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I said, no, that's not how it works.

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People don't want to do that.

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Business owners.

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Other things to do than

creating, doing their own visa.

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They don't have time for that.

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They run a business.

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They make money with their business.

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It makes no sense for them

to learn that new skill.

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The only thing they want to know

and make sure about is that I

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know what I'm talking about.

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And when they see all that information

I put online, they're like, Oh,

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this guy knows how to get a visa.

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I'm going to contract him and pay him

and just going to get my visa and that

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That thing became incredibly successful.

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I think after the first year I made

as much money with my own customers.

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I work a lot on weekends, by the way,

because you still have to work eight hours

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a day for your firm, sometimes 10 hours a

day because firms like Winston and Strong,

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they don't let you do that very easily.

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That's like a 15 hour

day at a firm like that.

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I work a hell of a lot, but

at the end, after the first

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year, I was on top of the 10 K.

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I was making from the big law firm.

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I was making some, sometimes

seven, six, seven K a month on,

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on the visa stuff that was doing

just basically taking my weekends.

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And when you think about it and

you think about modern marketing

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in 2023, it is still the same base

provide amazing content for free.

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So people are like, Oh, this

guy's interesting, or this company

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is interesting or whatever.

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And based on that, you're going to

start creating a flywheel of prospect.

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We're going to come to you because

they recognize you as the expert

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who can solve their problem.

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So by creating amazing content,

you can position yourself as a

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thought leader in your space.

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So don't, you're, what you're saying

is don't gatekeep your best content,

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actually share it out with the world.

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Cause a lot of people think,

Oh my God, if I share it.

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Other people are going to steal my ideas.

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They're going to take it.

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So they have like the wrong mindset.

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So what you're saying is like, when

you have great content, share and

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share it freely, like you shared

all of that content about the visas

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very graciously and you didn't hold

anything back, but as a return.

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You got rewarded 'cause people viewed

you and your website as a thought leader,

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but they didn't want to do it themselves.

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What?

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They know that you were savvy

enough to do it for them.

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So it actually ended up

getting you a lot of clients.

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So that was brilliant.

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I love that story.

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Yeah, and what I, I didn't do any of that

back then because there, there was no,

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the concept of lead gen didn't exist.

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The concept of CTA and form and download

downloadables and all that stuff.

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If I had to do it again, I would

have still provided the content

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for free, but I would have made the

forms or the templates unloadables.

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Hey, leave me your email and take

the form or take the template.

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And that way I would have generated

leads and that kind of stuff.

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So, but it's still exactly the same thing.

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Marketing has not evolved that

much in the past 23 years.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So if you were to give three tips.

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To let's say, even like for lawyers,

because you have been in the legal

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industry, you practice law and all that.

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What would be three tips that

you would give out for lawyers

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in terms of marketing in 2024,

because: 2024

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Well, I think the basics,

that basic is still the same.

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So first and foremost, think really

hard about what you're passionate about.

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In the field of law, what is it

that you're really passionate about?

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Because what, what's going to allow

you to create great marketing and to

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be a great marketer on top of a great

lawyer is that people are going to

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feel the passion and you're going to

be so passionate about the topic that

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you're going to want to write about it.

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You're going to want to

start a podcast about it.

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You're going to want

to do videos about it.

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You're going to want to

be spreading the news.

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There's this thing from the Supreme court.

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That's amazing.

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Look at the consequences for other.

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People have to feel that you

absolutely live and breathe your stuff.

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So think about what passionates you.

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If you're not passionate about

law, , we're not gonna be a

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good marketer about law, right?

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So think about that.

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Once you have your passion and you've

nailed it, and this is the thing.

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So for example, if you do m and

a, you can't just do m and a, you

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have to do a specific subset of m

and a, like FinTech, m and a, or.

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Tech M& A or medical, whatever

it is, insurance M& A.

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So pick a niche, don't go broad,

pick something very nichey.

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So you're going to speak very closely

to the ones who are very connected

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to that niche and a niche always have

specificities and it's going to help you

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adapt your content to people who are going

to react in like, Oh, this is exactly for

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me because I'm a tech, I'm a tech CEO.

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And this tech M& A is.

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It's speaking to my,

it's music to my ears.

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And, and once you've done that, then find

the media you're most comfortable with.

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Some people are fine on camera.

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Some people are shy and

they don't want to be seen.

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And they, whatever,

like it's very personal.

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But pick the one that you enjoy the most.

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Being on the camera.

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Do you enjoy talking?

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Then maybe a podcast is best.

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Do you enjoy writing?

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My co founder loves writing and reading.

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I'm not a writing and reading type of guy.

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So if that's what it is, do a medium.

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Start a medium blog, that kind.

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So identify what you enjoy

creating, whether it's video

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or sound or audio or writing.

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And then once you've picked that,

Start the practice like once a week,

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come up with a topic, come up with

something that you feel is exciting and

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interesting and create the content and

then start sharing it, it's going to be

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small in the early days, but it's, if

you do it consistently and you always

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think about how can you promote it,

to whom can you send it, eventually

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you will grow to something meaningful.

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Now, the promotion part obviously is key.

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So be strategic about that.

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How are you going to make

sure that this is being seen?

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When I did my stuff in the

late nineties, SEO was easy.

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I was probably the only person in

the entire French speaking countries

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who created content about visa.

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So visa, US visa.

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So I was.

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If you search for U.

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S.

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visa Etats Unis in

French, boom, that was me.

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Today, it probably wouldn't

happen, but you know what?

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I'm pretty sure there are still

opportunities even in SEO for a

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French speaking lawyer to create

content about French speaking business

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owners who want to go to the U.

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S.

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I'm pretty sure it is

still possible today.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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SEO is huge.

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I mean, especially for lawyers.

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I mean, that's how you're going

to get found online, but also

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social media is equally huge.

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So, I mean, thank you for sharing

your perspective on all of that.

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And before we dive deep into

Agora Pulse, my question is.

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Why is even like social media important

for lawyers, for business owners,

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for entrepreneurs, like, why should

they really invest their time into

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producing content, posting it every day?

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What's like the biggest advantages

that you see of doing that?

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And maybe even of not doing that.

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Cause there's people that

don't do it or they do it.

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They're not consistent with it.

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And I believe that part of

building a personal brand.

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Doing social media is that

you have to be consistent.

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So what are the biggest

advantages you see of doing it?

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And then also for people that aren't

doing it, what would you say to them?

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Yeah.

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So back to the promotion piece,

it all starts with the content.

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If you don't have any content

to share, having a presence on

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social media is a waste of time.

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What are you going to share?

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We had for breakfast or for dinner,

like nobody's going to be interested

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about your social media if you

don't have amazing content to share.

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So it starts with the content.

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So everything we, I, we we've said

earlier is valid and leads you to, okay,

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now you have the passion, now you have

the niche, now you have the content.

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How, where are you going to share that?

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How are you going to make people aware

that it exists and they can check it out?

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That's where social media is, is

probably in: 2024

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channel that you need to leverage

and you need to, you need to seize.

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Web and SEO is one, but as web

and SEO, social media takes time.

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If you start writing content,

SEO is going to catch up.

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It may take a year and a half, two

years before you start having enough of.

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SEO presence to start getting

prospect in same for social media.

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It's the exact same thing.

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There's no shortcut, whatever you choose

as your main channel to distribute the

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amazing, the amazing content you're

creating, it's going to take time.

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But if the content is amazing, there

is no doubt people will come to it.

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If the content is amazing and you

constantly post on LinkedIn, for example,

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whether it's video, whether it's text,

people are going to start noticing and

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little by little, your followers are

going to grow and people are going to

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engage with it and thank you for that,

for sharing valuable content that's

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helping them and little by little,

it's going to, it's going to grow.

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What you can do to help it grow.

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: 00:15:03

There are a lot of tactics about the

hashtags you can use and, and engaging

313

: 00:15:08

with other people in your space who

then engage back and get to know you.

314

: 00:15:11

So you can do engagement, you

can use those kinds of tricks.

315

: 00:15:14

You can do listening, trying to listen

to questions on Twitter about your stuff.

316

: 00:15:19

Like, let's say you're an MNA

lawyer in tech MNA, is there anybody

317

: 00:15:22

talking about tech MNA on Twitter?

318

: 00:15:24

Go run a tech M& A listening

search on Twitter to see if there's

319

: 00:15:27

anybody asking, Hey, do you know

a tech M& A blah, blah, blah.

320

: 00:15:30

And then you can go in and say, yeah,

I know someone here's a, I wrote a blog

321

: 00:15:33

post exactly about that two years ago.

322

: 00:15:35

Here's the link.

323

: 00:15:36

You can read about it.

324

: 00:15:37

Maybe it's helpful.

325

: 00:15:38

So you can have, you can do a little

bit of that and are here and are there.

326

: 00:15:42

And eventually.

327

: 00:15:43

Your notoriety online on social media

is going to grow month after month.

328

: 00:15:49

And up until you get to a point

where, Oh, you wake up one morning

329

: 00:15:52

and you have thousands of people

reading your stuff every morning.

330

: 00:15:55

And then you're like, okay, now I'm a,

now I'm a star in my space on social.

331

: 00:16:00

And if you do that, you

always end up there.

332

: 00:16:03

I have at least four or five friends

who have above 1 million followers on

333

: 00:16:08

YouTube now, which is an achievement.

334

: 00:16:11

This, they all started at zero.

335

: 00:16:13

Like, like, like me today, I'm not the

YouTube guy, so I'm not big there, but

336

: 00:16:17

there, there were, there was one day when

they said, okay, I'm, I'm totally in non

337

: 00:16:21

existent on that social media platform.

338

: 00:16:24

I want to be present there and I

want to have a big following there.

339

: 00:16:28

Start with the content.

340

: 00:16:30

Then go with the distribution and

do it consistently and use all these

341

: 00:16:34

tricks to get the world to notice.

342

: 00:16:36

And one day you wake up and

you've built an audience and here

343

: 00:16:39

you are, let's be honest here.

344

: 00:16:41

It is hard.

345

: 00:16:43

It is not for everyone.

346

: 00:16:44

Not every lawyer is going to be

a YouTube star next year, right?

347

: 00:16:47

We, we know that, but if you are

passionate about that and you want to

348

: 00:16:52

grow and you want to be a top notch lawyer

in your space, that's how you do it.

349

: 00:16:56

Yeah, I mean, and you know what?

350

: 00:16:59

Right.

351

: 00:16:59

But it doesn't happen overnight.

352

: 00:17:01

So, but what we see outside looking in,

when we see someone, they have a million

353

: 00:17:06

followers on Tik TOK on YouTube, or

they have a huge following on LinkedIn.

354

: 00:17:11

We don't see all the work and effort

that was put into it, but the person

355

: 00:17:14

who's done it has, and sometimes that

could have taken them five years.

356

: 00:17:19

One year, three years, 10 years.

357

: 00:17:21

We don't see that part.

358

: 00:17:23

And then I think one of the issues is

that when people start doing something

359

: 00:17:26

in terms of marketing, whether it's

SEO, whether it's having a podcast,

360

: 00:17:31

whether it is writing blog content

or doing reels on like TikTok,

361

: 00:17:37

YouTube shorts, all those things.

362

: 00:17:38

I think people give up too easily

because with social media, I think

363

: 00:17:42

people look at it the wrong way.

364

: 00:17:44

I think they think, Oh, I can just post

up for a month and I'm going to get

365

: 00:17:47

all these leads and clients coming in.

366

: 00:17:49

And you and I both know that's

not the reality of it, right?

367

: 00:17:52

With social media marketing, if you just

start today, it can realistically take.

368

: 00:17:58

A year or two before you get leads

coming in however I think the main

369

: 00:18:01

thing is having that online presence

is so critical because when someone

370

: 00:18:06

Is deciding whether they want to work

with let's say that attorney or that

371

: 00:18:10

business versus someone else They

are going to look them up online.

372

: 00:18:14

They're going to look at

their social media channels.

373

: 00:18:16

They're going to look at their

website They're going to look at if

374

: 00:18:19

they've been You know, mentioned in

the press or anything, and they're

375

: 00:18:22

going to compare and contrast.

376

: 00:18:24

And I think that having a social

media presence or having a podcast

377

: 00:18:28

or having a YouTube channel, I think

it gives you instant credibility.

378

: 00:18:33

And that credibility can be

the difference between losing a

379

: 00:18:36

referral or gaining a new client.

380

: 00:18:39

What are your thoughts on that?

381

: 00:18:40

Yeah, if I was an M& A lawyer still

today, you know what I would do?

382

: 00:18:46

I would start a podcast and a blog.

383

: 00:18:48

I would basically do blog, podcast

and YouTube, the three of them.

384

: 00:18:51

Um, I would do the video interview and

then that video interview would become

385

: 00:18:55

the podcast, the video and YouTube, of

course, but also the podcast because

386

: 00:18:58

you have the audio and I would have a

transcript become the medium blog post.

387

: 00:19:02

And I would interview tech

CEOs who sold their companies.

388

: 00:19:06

And I would interview them on, okay,

let's talk about the legal side of things.

389

: 00:19:10

What went wrong?

390

: 00:19:11

What was complicated?

391

: 00:19:12

What didn't you understand before

that you now understand that was

392

: 00:19:15

like an aha moment for you on,

oh, that's why I need a lawyer.

393

: 00:19:18

That what are the things that the, the

other side tried to negotiate and stick

394

: 00:19:23

into the contract that you refused.

395

: 00:19:25

And it was the right thing to

do because those things are very

396

: 00:19:27

risky and dangerous for you.

397

: 00:19:28

Let's talk the legal aspect of the

deal and not the money and the,

398

: 00:19:32

and the big PR and all that stuff.

399

: 00:19:34

Nope, I don't know of anybody doing that.

400

: 00:19:36

And I'm a tech CEO now, and

that doesn't ring a bell.

401

: 00:19:39

So the day I need, if I have my

lawyer, good for me, but if I don't

402

: 00:19:42

have my lawyer, who I'm going to

turn to, I'm going to turn to the one

403

: 00:19:45

who is interviewing all these tech

CEOs that are being acquired, right?

404

: 00:19:48

And you don't have to be their lawyer, by

the way, you can just reach out to them.

405

: 00:19:51

Hey, I heard you just sold your company.

406

: 00:19:53

I would like to interview you on

the legal aspect of your stuff.

407

: 00:19:56

I would, that's exactly what I would

do if I was an M& A lawyer today.

408

: 00:19:59

And I wanted to be known

for the tech M& A lawyer.

409

: 00:20:03

That's the example.

410

: 00:20:05

I love that.

411

: 00:20:05

That's a great example.

412

: 00:20:06

And it's a strategy.

413

: 00:20:08

I think everything, when it comes

to marketing and social media,

414

: 00:20:10

you have to have a strategy.

415

: 00:20:12

A lot of people start doing social

media, but they don't sit down first

416

: 00:20:15

to formulate a strategy that's going to

help them obtain their business goals.

417

: 00:20:20

And they just start like haphazardly.

418

: 00:20:22

Right.

419

: 00:20:23

So I think you have to have a

strategy and that's really important.

420

: 00:20:26

So let's dive into, let's start talking

a little bit about Agorapause like.

421

: 00:20:30

What inspired you to start this

company and what was the problem in

422

: 00:20:35

the marketplace that you were trying to

solve when you first started the company?

423

: 00:20:39

Well, so when we first started

in: 2000

424

: 00:20:43

that went busted since then.

425

: 00:20:46

And for 10 years, we failed at trying

to be successful at that first company.

426

: 00:20:50

So the 2000, 1000, and.

427

: 00:20:52

10.

428

: 00:20:53

End of 2010, the company was named

Affinities and basically the ID

429

: 00:20:57

behind it, it was a piece of software

online in the cloud that allowed you

430

: 00:21:00

to create your own social network.

431

: 00:21:03

So think about this, in 2000, in 2001,

we released a software that allows

432

: 00:21:07

you to create your own social network.

433

: 00:21:08

Facebook started in 2004, , so being

too early on the market is not a good

434

: 00:21:14

thing when you're an entrepreneur.

435

: 00:21:15

So that we pivoted that to.

436

: 00:21:17

B2B white label technology,

and then kind of an agent

437

: 00:21:20

build an agency on top of that.

438

: 00:21:22

So it was really hard.

439

: 00:21:23

And during all these years,

I almost didn't pay myself.

440

: 00:21:26

I was minimum wage for

four years in a row.

441

: 00:21:28

So it was really tough, especially when

you you've been paid really well by, by

442

: 00:21:32

an American law firm in Paris and in 2011.

443

: 00:21:35

We randomly stumbled upon someone

who wanted to do contests and

444

: 00:21:40

promotions on Facebook, and we started

building contests and promotions

445

: 00:21:43

on Facebook for that business.

446

: 00:21:45

And then another business,

and then another one.

447

: 00:21:47

And then we basically started to become

an agency that was running Facebook apps.

448

: 00:21:51

And we saw a company that had.

449

: 00:21:54

Done that, but in, in a SaaS way, in a

way that it was a platform that you go,

450

: 00:21:58

you would go, you subscribe for 99 a month

and you could create all the apps you

451

: 00:22:01

want and start them on your Facebook page.

452

: 00:22:04

So that's how Agorapulse got started as a

platform that allows you to build Facebook

453

: 00:22:09

contests and promotion on your Facebook

page in that was launched in: 2011

454

: 00:22:13

Today, this part of the product

does not even exist anymore.

455

: 00:22:16

We don't run contests and promotion

on Agorapulse because we quickly

456

: 00:22:19

realized that the business was very bad.

457

: 00:22:22

It was high churn business.

458

: 00:22:24

The customer would come, do a contest

and stay two months and then leave.

459

: 00:22:28

And the money was churning constantly.

460

: 00:22:30

So we said, okay, that doesn't work.

461

: 00:22:31

This is not going to build

the business we want to build.

462

: 00:22:33

So we pivoted that to.

463

: 00:22:35

The social media, which is okay.

464

: 00:22:37

We only have Facebook.

465

: 00:22:37

We need to add Twitter and then

Instagram and then LinkedIn and

466

: 00:22:40

then this and then that, and we

only do contest and promotion.

467

: 00:22:44

We need to do message management and

publishing and measurement and reporting.

468

: 00:22:48

So between 2012 and 2016, we spent four

years adding features and to move from,

469

: 00:22:57

we only do contest and promotion to, Oh,

we do the whole social media management.

470

: 00:23:01

360.

471

: 00:23:02

Feature set and in 2016,

I think we were okay.

472

: 00:23:06

And in 2019, we had a solid product

and now we have a very solid product.

473

: 00:23:10

Like it's one of the best on the market.

474

: 00:23:13

And what's, what, so if people

know over social media management

475

: 00:23:17

software, they probably heard about

Hootsuite or Sprout social, those

476

: 00:23:21

are our main competition, basically.

477

: 00:23:23

And when you look at us versus them,

there's one thing that's us versus

478

: 00:23:27

them that I'm very proud about.

479

: 00:23:28

They both raised 270 million.

480

: 00:23:31

We've raised zero.

481

: 00:23:32

So our company is completely bootstrapped.

482

: 00:23:34

We're 170 people across the world.

483

: 00:23:37

We make 24 million of annual revenue

and we have never raised money.

484

: 00:23:40

So that's something I'm proud about.

485

: 00:23:42

So with the customer we

work with, we're basically.

486

: 00:23:46

More like them, most of the customers we

work with, I haven't raised 200 million.

487

: 00:23:50

They've built their business

out of sweat equity.

488

: 00:23:53

Right?

489

: 00:23:53

So that's one thing, but really the

thing I'm very proud about is that

490

: 00:23:57

we build an ROI engine return on

investment engine that allows us to

491

: 00:24:03

tell you where conversion and revenue

is coming from on social media.

492

: 00:24:08

So if you do social media.

493

: 00:24:10

Uh, if you do a lot of activities on

social media, but you're not really

494

: 00:24:13

sure which one is working, which one

is not, we're going to give you a

495

: 00:24:17

detailed understanding on what your

private message are doing well, your

496

: 00:24:21

comments are doing well, so your Twitter

is doing well, your LinkedIn is doing

497

: 00:24:25

well, so we can see Really give you

a hint on what's working and what's

498

: 00:24:30

not at the conversion level, at the

business result, business impact level.

499

: 00:24:35

So that's the thing that

separates us from the competition.

500

: 00:24:38

Otherwise we do the publishing and

the engagement and the listening and

501

: 00:24:41

the measuring the everything at least

as well as the others on some stuff.

502

: 00:24:47

They're a little bit better on this.

503

: 00:24:48

We're a little bit better,

a little bit better on that.

504

: 00:24:51

We all do publishing.

505

: 00:24:52

We all do monitoring.

506

: 00:24:53

We all do listening.

507

: 00:24:53

We all do reporting.

508

: 00:24:55

Our own way.

509

: 00:24:56

Some people prefer ours.

510

: 00:24:57

Some people prefer someone else's.

511

: 00:24:59

That's competition.

512

: 00:25:00

That's life.

513

: 00:25:01

Right.

514

: 00:25:01

At the core, what separates us and what

makes us a little bit different is this

515

: 00:25:05

measuring ROI and business impact aspect.

516

: 00:25:08

Well, I think measuring ROI is so

important because you need to know

517

: 00:25:12

if your marketing is working or not.

518

: 00:25:14

And if you're taking the time to

post, let's say on LinkedIn and the

519

: 00:25:18

content on LinkedIn might be different

than what you post on, let's say,

520

: 00:25:21

Instagram and Facebook and so forth.

521

: 00:25:23

So I think it's really key.

522

: 00:25:25

to have the data because if something's

working better, then that you can invest

523

: 00:25:29

more time and effort into say LinkedIn

and that's more where your target audience

524

: 00:25:34

is because each platform is different and

different platforms also have a different

525

: 00:25:40

target audience where for some businesses.

526

: 00:25:43

LinkedIn, maybe where their target

audience hangs out for others.

527

: 00:25:47

It might be Instagram for others.

528

: 00:25:49

It might be Tik TOK or Facebook.

529

: 00:25:51

And having that data, I think is so

instrumental in the success of everything.

530

: 00:25:56

And then when you say like it kind

of tracks ROI, is it basically

531

: 00:26:01

giving analytics of like, okay,

this is your, these type of posts

532

: 00:26:05

got the most amount of engagement.

533

: 00:26:07

How does it actually know

what turns into like.

534

: 00:26:10

Sales though, or does it?

535

: 00:26:12

Yeah, it does.

536

: 00:26:13

If, if in order to measure that it, it,

it does, if you have a link redirecting to

537

: 00:26:21

an, to an asset, to a marketing asset you

have on your site, that's a downloadable.

538

: 00:26:25

That's whatever, that's a free trial

for us, for me, that's a free trial.

539

: 00:26:29

So we measure how many free trials

we get or how many downloads we get

540

: 00:26:32

or how many webinar registration

we get or event registration.

541

: 00:26:36

So you have to have something to measure.

542

: 00:26:38

Obviously there's nothing to measure.

543

: 00:26:40

If you were to say, hello, good morning.

544

: 00:26:42

And that's where your post ends.

545

: 00:26:44

There's nothing to measure behind it.

546

: 00:26:46

But as soon as you say, Hey, we're

releasing this event on like, we're

547

: 00:26:50

having an event in December of about.

548

: 00:26:52

Pinterest marketing because we're

releasing a new Pinterest integration.

549

: 00:26:55

So we have Pinterest as a keynote

speaker, like it's a creative event.

550

: 00:26:58

It's a virtual event.

551

: 00:27:00

And so we're promoting that event,

but that event is just value for them.

552

: 00:27:03

It's free.

553

: 00:27:04

It's really, if you're interested about

how can I make Pinterest work for my

554

: 00:27:07

business and you're an agency, it's also

for agencies, then that event is perfect.

555

: 00:27:11

So when we promote that event,

obviously there's a link to register

556

: 00:27:14

to that event and that link.

557

: 00:27:16

What we do, and by, by the

way, I, I patented this.

558

: 00:27:19

So I filed a patent with the USPTO

to patent the, how we do it, but

559

: 00:27:23

we automatically turn that random

link that you're including, that are

560

: 00:27:27

including in your post that's leading

to your event, for example, where.

561

: 00:27:31

We're UTM izing it automatically.

562

: 00:27:34

So we turn that link, that's a

normal link, to a link that's

563

: 00:27:36

entirely tracked and that's minified.

564

: 00:27:39

And when we, then we connect with GA4,

with Google Analytics, and we repatriate

565

: 00:27:44

through their API, everything that

happened after that link was clicked.

566

: 00:27:47

And we connect the dots between

the post, the link, and what

567

: 00:27:51

happened after the link.

568

: 00:27:52

So we're able to tell you, oh,

that post that you, James, posted

569

: 00:27:56

on LinkedIn at 9pm last Tuesday.

570

: 00:27:59

It got five registrations to our event.

571

: 00:28:02

Congrats, James.

572

: 00:28:03

Thank you so much for helping us.

573

: 00:28:05

And we're adding this to our

employee advocacy feature.

574

: 00:28:09

So if you have all the, all the

people in your firm promoting that

575

: 00:28:12

event, and they're spreading that

on their own LinkedIn, we're going

576

: 00:28:15

to track all of that as well.

577

: 00:28:16

So you're going to be able to say,

Oh, all the employees among all the

578

: 00:28:19

employees, these are the ones who help us.

579

: 00:28:22

Share the news of that

event based on those.

580

: 00:28:24

We got that many visitors on our website

and based on those visitors, we have

581

: 00:28:28

that many registrant to our event.

582

: 00:28:30

And at the end of the day, you're able

to attribute business impact to what your

583

: 00:28:35

team is doing on social media with you.

584

: 00:28:37

So that's, yeah, that's how we do it.

585

: 00:28:38

And I'm super passionate about

that because I'm passionate about.

586

: 00:28:42

Knowing what's working and I feel like

social media has been put in the bucket

587

: 00:28:48

of the must do, but don't want to do

it kind of stuff by many businesses.

588

: 00:28:51

Ah, we have to do social media

because like we have to have a

589

: 00:28:55

website of the early 20, 2000s.

590

: 00:28:57

Right.

591

: 00:28:58

And I really want to change that.

592

: 00:29:00

I want to say, yes, we have to do social

media because now we know it can work

593

: 00:29:03

and we know we can measure it so we can

have a strategy because it's really hard

594

: 00:29:07

to have a strategy, a marketing strategy

when you have no idea what's working.

595

: 00:29:10

Exactly.

596

: 00:29:11

I love that.

597

: 00:29:11

I think that's an amazing thing

that you guys can track that because

598

: 00:29:15

you have to know what's working.

599

: 00:29:16

That's definitely key.

600

: 00:29:18

Now let's talk a little bit about,

I would love to get your thoughts

601

: 00:29:21

on AI because AI is big things like

chat GPT, open AI integrations.

602

: 00:29:27

How are you incorporating

AI into Agorapulse?

603

: 00:29:30

And what are your personal thoughts on

AI and where it's where it's heading?

604

: 00:29:34

Because it's growing at a

very fast pace right now.

605

: 00:29:37

Yeah.

606

: 00:29:39

That's definitely the question

of the month, the question

607

: 00:29:43

of the year, the decade.

608

: 00:29:44

Probably my co founder recently told me

that we always overestimate the impact

609

: 00:29:50

of a technology when it just got out,

but we underestimate it in the long term.

610

: 00:29:54

So in the short term, we overestimate

what it can do, but in the

611

: 00:29:57

long term, we underestimate the

deep impact it's going to have.

612

: 00:30:00

Look at the impact of the web

and 20, 20 years, 25 years later,

613

: 00:30:05

looking at the impact on mobile.

614

: 00:30:07

10 years after mobile became

really ubiquitous, back to social.

615

: 00:30:11

Like there, there are a lot of shifts

in our world that we overestimated

616

: 00:30:17

when we first, they first got out, but

we totally under, we had no idea what

617

: 00:30:21

they would disrupt in the long run.

618

: 00:30:22

So I am humble and I think I have no clue.

619

: 00:30:26

Of about the level of disruption AI

is going to have on everything 20

620

: 00:30:31

years from today, but I think that

today people's expectations are too

621

: 00:30:35

high and the technology is not ready

yet to meet those expectations.

622

: 00:30:40

Anyhow, what I see in the next,

I don't know, two to three years,

623

: 00:30:44

it's hard to see further than that

is that AI is going to disrupt some

624

: 00:30:49

industries and some businesses.

625

: 00:30:51

Businesses that are providing a

service that you can actually go

626

: 00:30:55

to chat GPT and ask something, and

they're going to give it to you.

627

: 00:30:58

And it's almost the same.

628

: 00:31:00

Those businesses are going to suffer.

629

: 00:31:02

The best example of

that is Stack Overflow.

630

: 00:31:05

So Stack Overflow is a place where

you can go and ask questions about.

631

: 00:31:08

Co pieces of codes and stuff like that.

632

: 00:31:11

ChatGPT can build a piece

of code for you now.

633

: 00:31:13

So people don't go to Stack Overflow

anymore and they go to ChatGPT and

634

: 00:31:16

Hey, you write me a JavaScript piece,

piece of JavaScript that does X,

635

: 00:31:20

Y, and Z and boom, and here it is.

636

: 00:31:21

And you have it.

637

: 00:31:22

So you, the, the traffic on Stack

Overflow, I think I've gone down by like

638

: 00:31:27

50 or 60 percent in just six months.

639

: 00:31:29

It's crazy how disrupted

this business is by AI.

640

: 00:31:34

So that's one example of those

who are going to be disrupted.

641

: 00:31:38

And then for many others, AI is going

to be an add on, a companion, like a,

642

: 00:31:42

a, a vitamin, if I may say, that you're

going to add a layer here and there.

643

: 00:31:48

And I think we are one of those.

644

: 00:31:49

So for example, AI can help you

improve the content you create.

645

: 00:31:53

So you type in something and say,

make it shorter, funnier, longer,

646

: 00:31:57

formal, more of this, more of that.

647

: 00:32:00

So that we have already, we've

integrated that on the content.

648

: 00:32:03

I think very soon we're, AI is going to

propose content based on past content

649

: 00:32:08

that you've posted that was successful,

got a lot of engagement, lots of

650

: 00:32:11

clicks, content from your competition.

651

: 00:32:13

Like look at this guy and this guy

and that guy and propose content

652

: 00:32:17

that looks like them, or look at

their best content in the past for

653

: 00:32:20

AI is going to be doing all of that.

654

: 00:32:22

Proposing, suggesting, keeping

you in control because at the end

655

: 00:32:25

of the day, you have to stay in

control about your voice, right?

656

: 00:32:27

You have to, I don't believe for a minute

about you putting a bot, turning it on

657

: 00:32:32

and moving on to something else and coming

back to your social presence four months

658

: 00:32:35

later, just to realize that your bot has

been praising Nazis or anything silly.

659

: 00:32:41

Oh my God, what happened

on my social profile?

660

: 00:32:43

So you have to stay in control and you

have, it's, it has to be your voice.

661

: 00:32:47

Yeah.

662

: 00:32:47

That AI is going to give you so much

more inspiration and curation, and that's

663

: 00:32:51

going to help you be a lot more efficient.

664

: 00:32:54

That's for sure.

665

: 00:32:54

It's going to improve efficiency for sure.

666

: 00:32:56

So when you reply to people like,

Oh, you could reply this, like

667

: 00:33:00

suggesting a reply, it's already kind

of happening in many support tools and

668

: 00:33:03

it's going to get better and better.

669

: 00:33:05

So you're going to be

faster, more efficient.

670

: 00:33:07

And, and this.

671

: 00:33:08

Keep your own voice, but tell

it, tell it better, basically.

672

: 00:33:12

So that's what AI is going to do

in our, in my industry for sure.

673

: 00:33:15

And it's going to find

insights into your analytics.

674

: 00:33:18

It's going to do a great two extra X,

basically going to look at a lot of

675

: 00:33:21

data out of this massive amount of data.

676

: 00:33:24

This, and that is what you need to

know, and that's what AI is gonna do.

677

: 00:33:27

So making sense of a lot of the things

that today we're, we don't have time

678

: 00:33:30

to check and audit it basically.

679

: 00:33:31

So that's how I see AI in our industry.

680

: 00:33:34

But beyond that, I have to

admit that, I don't know.

681

: 00:33:38

It's quite exciting being an entrepreneur.

682

: 00:33:41

I'm more excited than afraid.

683

: 00:33:42

I'm more looking forward to it than, yeah.

684

: 00:33:45

Than being scared by it.

685

: 00:33:47

Yeah.

686

: 00:33:47

But it's gonna be, you're,

you're embracing ai.

687

: 00:33:50

And I think that's what I

always tell people like.

688

: 00:33:52

You can't ignore it anymore because it

is here to stay and it is not, it's not

689

: 00:33:56

a trend, it's not a fad, it's here to

stay and it's moving so fast that if

690

: 00:34:00

you don't start embracing it now, this

is like what I do, like I'm a marketing

691

: 00:34:04

and AI strategist, but my head's

spinning every time there's something

692

: 00:34:07

new that comes out and it's changing so

quickly, but people that are more old

693

: 00:34:11

school and they're resistant to it, I'm

going to say they need to start paying

694

: 00:34:15

attention because it is here to stay.

695

: 00:34:17

And every platform I look at for

social media management, all Even

696

: 00:34:22

website design, they're all have

incorporated some element of AI built in.

697

: 00:34:27

And that's why I was asking you as well,

because I was going to, I already knew

698

: 00:34:31

the answer is going to be probably, yes.

699

: 00:34:32

I just wanted to know what exactly it is.

700

: 00:34:35

And with AI, like you have to put in

your own human intelligence into it.

701

: 00:34:39

That's what I say, but really you have

to, you can't just like, yeah, turn it

702

: 00:34:43

on and then that's it, but you really

have to put in your own intelligence

703

: 00:34:47

because what you put in the input.

704

: 00:34:49

Is really essentially the output that

you're going to get, if it's going

705

: 00:34:52

to be good content or bad content.

706

: 00:34:54

So I think it makes a big difference in,

in how you prompt AI and how you even like

707

: 00:35:00

now with chat GPT, you can set up your own

custom GPTs and custom AI agents and bots.

708

: 00:35:06

So I've actually set one up for myself.

709

: 00:35:09

I set one up for lawyers.

710

: 00:35:11

I'm setting up a couple of other ones

and you can program it to literally.

711

: 00:35:15

Right.

712

: 00:35:15

Content and the tone that you want,

the style that you want, the, it's

713

: 00:35:19

going to know your brand voice.

714

: 00:35:20

It's going to know all those things.

715

: 00:35:22

And this is something that

it's like, it's here already.

716

: 00:35:26

Right.

717

: 00:35:26

So as the future evolves, right.

718

: 00:35:29

What are, or is there anything that

maybe it's top secret, you can't

719

: 00:35:33

disclose it, but is there anything

new and exciting besides maybe, or you

720

: 00:35:37

can elaborate on the Pinterest one of

any integrations or any new features

721

: 00:35:42

that you're adding into Agora Pulse?

722

: 00:35:47

Oh, we're adding a ton of stuff in the

next 12 months, but really the one I'm

723

: 00:35:52

the most excited about is the advocacy we

call, we used to call it the ambassador.

724

: 00:35:57

It's still in beta right now, but

it's going to be, I think they decided

725

: 00:36:00

on, they settled down on advocacy.

726

: 00:36:02

So it's going to be advocacy feature.

727

: 00:36:04

It's basically when you're a small

medium business and your social media

728

: 00:36:08

presence is not that great, like

it's okay, but it's not that great.

729

: 00:36:13

It is hard.

730

: 00:36:13

And again, you remember my passion is

attributing success to social media.

731

: 00:36:17

It is hard to create success out of

organic social media on your own.

732

: 00:36:22

It really hard.

733

: 00:36:22

And that's something we discovered and

realized as we were helping our customers

734

: 00:36:26

with our social media ROI feature.

735

: 00:36:30

If you cannot do it alone, ask for

help and ask, create an influencer

736

: 00:36:34

program or work with influencers or.

737

: 00:36:37

And we can call them

influencers or ambassadors.

738

: 00:36:39

Find people who are excited about

your business and your company,

739

: 00:36:42

and you are okay to be your

voice in the outside on social.

740

: 00:36:46

Work with your employees

if they are okay with that.

741

: 00:36:49

And don't be alone trying

to be successful on social.

742

: 00:36:52

Do it as a team.

743

: 00:36:53

And that feature is allowing

businesses to do that.

744

: 00:36:56

And as a business.

745

: 00:36:58

I can tell you that I

am excited to use it.

746

: 00:37:00

Like, let me give you one

very simple, basic example.

747

: 00:37:03

We share job openings for our, for all

the jobs that we have, we offer right now.

748

: 00:37:10

And there are jobs that

are pretty hard to feel.

749

: 00:37:12

Web developers are one of them.

750

: 00:37:14

Product managers or product

designers also quite hard to recruit.

751

: 00:37:18

When you have a bunch of web developers

and product managers and product

752

: 00:37:22

designers in your team, and you encourage

them to, Hey, here's a job opening.

753

: 00:37:26

Can you share it on LinkedIn?

754

: 00:37:27

Can you help us spread the word?

755

: 00:37:29

And so, so first you get colleagues

that you enjoy because they're

756

: 00:37:32

part of your network and they're

your friends and you know them.

757

: 00:37:34

So can you help us do that?

758

: 00:37:36

And if they do that, and

you can know who did it.

759

: 00:37:39

And you can know how many applications

you got from who in the team.

760

: 00:37:44

And you can celebrate that.

761

: 00:37:45

And you can go on the all hands meeting on

Wednesday and say, guys, this is amazing.

762

: 00:37:50

Jenna, she shared her, the job opening

on LinkedIn, and we got three applicants

763

: 00:37:54

who are this guy and that guy, and

we are actually in the final process.

764

: 00:37:58

Jenna, so much for helping.

765

: 00:38:01

How do you think she's going to feel?

766

: 00:38:02

She's going to feel amazing.

767

: 00:38:03

And you're going to feel amazing.

768

: 00:38:04

And everybody's going to like,

Oh my God, that's amazing.

769

: 00:38:06

That's great.

770

: 00:38:06

I love that story.

771

: 00:38:07

I love that we can be a part of

the success and have an impact.

772

: 00:38:11

And.

773

: 00:38:12

Stories like that cannot exist with

you in a vacuum trying to promote

774

: 00:38:16

your own business on your own.

775

: 00:38:17

It has to be based on you leveraging

the teams or team of employees or

776

: 00:38:20

a team of external ambassadors.

777

: 00:38:23

So that feature for me is exciting

because I can see how I can use it.

778

: 00:38:27

I can see how I can make it part

of our plan to succeed on social

779

: 00:38:31

and not do it on your, on our own.

780

: 00:38:33

Thank you for sharing that.

781

: 00:38:34

I love that.

782

: 00:38:35

I love that.

783

: 00:38:35

So a few more questions about Agorapause

in terms of who it's ideal for, is

784

: 00:38:40

it more ideal for specific types of

businesses or like meaning, like, is

785

: 00:38:45

it better for solopreneurs, small to

midsize, like who's the target audience?

786

: 00:38:50

Yeah, we're not, we're not

targeting solopreneurs.

787

: 00:38:53

I'm not going to lie.

788

: 00:38:54

We used to, that's how we got started.

789

: 00:38:55

But today, the.

790

: 00:38:57

Solopreneurs can find enough in

the free native Meta platform and

791

: 00:39:03

oh, they go natively on LinkedIn.

792

: 00:39:05

So like solopreneurs are very careful

about how they spend their money.

793

: 00:39:09

And when you tell them,

oh, this is 49 a month.

794

: 00:39:12

Oh, that's expensive.

795

: 00:39:13

Well, 49 a month is not expensive.

796

: 00:39:15

This is nothing for me.

797

: 00:39:16

It is absolutely nothing,

but for them it is.

798

: 00:39:18

So there's a mismatch between the value

we provide and how they value that value.

799

: 00:39:23

And for them, that's

not good enough because.

800

: 00:39:26

The level of complexity they have

to deal with is not that great.

801

: 00:39:29

So they don't need so much of a complex

tool to deal with their own problems.

802

: 00:39:34

So we're more like SMBs

of 50 plus employees.

803

: 00:39:37

I would say something like

that and mid market businesses.

804

: 00:39:40

So if you think about.

805

: 00:39:42

If you think about a law firm,

like we discussed earlier, if

806

: 00:39:44

you're a solo lawyer on your own,

you probably don't need a tool.

807

: 00:39:47

You probably want to do it on your own.

808

: 00:39:49

And before you even consider a tool,

build a presence, build a content, get

809

: 00:39:53

some level of success, and then you'll

understand how a tool can use you.

810

: 00:39:57

But don't start with the tool.

811

: 00:39:58

It probably doesn't make sense.

812

: 00:40:00

If you're a 50 people law firm with

someone in charge of marketing, and

813

: 00:40:03

it's, it is something really, you've

already invested in and you want to

814

: 00:40:06

make, you want to keep investing in it.

815

: 00:40:08

It's working, but you.

816

: 00:40:09

But it's a bit messy and chaotic,

then a tool is probably a good idea.

817

: 00:40:13

So I'd say the four agencies, we

usually say it's 10 people plus, so

818

: 00:40:18

more than 10 people in the agency.

819

: 00:40:20

And for businesses, it's

probably about 50 people.

820

: 00:40:23

But you know, it depends if you're

super, super active on social,

821

: 00:40:27

maybe a 30 people company can see

value in using a tool like ours.

822

: 00:40:30

And you have a lot of

profiles and a lot of people.

823

: 00:40:34

Involved in the social media work,

but I'd say if you're a small,

824

: 00:40:38

you're probably better off going

native and using the native tools and

825

: 00:40:42

figuring it out without learning a

tool or spending money on the tool.

826

: 00:40:45

And yeah, we, our, our self service

plan started 49 49 a month when you pay

827

: 00:40:50

identity or 69 a month, if you don't.

828

: 00:40:52

So they're still very affordable, but.

829

: 00:40:55

What I've noticed is the smaller

they are, the more immature they

830

: 00:40:58

are in how they market on social,

the less value they see in the tool.

831

: 00:41:02

So they tend not to buy it or not to stay.

832

: 00:41:05

Yeah.

833

: 00:41:05

Thank you.

834

: 00:41:06

Yeah, that makes sense.

835

: 00:41:07

And the thing is there are so

many platforms out there already.

836

: 00:41:10

I mean, they can use buffer for free,

things like that, but it's more so like

837

: 00:41:14

Agorapulse is tailored towards companies.

838

: 00:41:17

That really need analytics.

839

: 00:41:19

They want to know data, right?

840

: 00:41:21

They want to know like what's working,

what's not, so they can do more of that.

841

: 00:41:24

And they're really doing

things on a larger scale.

842

: 00:41:27

So that makes, that makes perfect sense.

843

: 00:41:29

And then what about in terms

of Agorapulse, how did you

844

: 00:41:32

and your co founder grow the

company throughout the years?

845

: 00:41:35

Because one of the hardest things about

having company and when you start out, it.

846

: 00:41:41

Doesn't always work.

847

: 00:41:42

Like you said, the other company

you had, it failed, right?

848

: 00:41:45

But part of entrepreneurship is not

giving up and trying things differently.

849

: 00:41:50

So what are some things that

you've experienced along the

850

: 00:41:53

way and maybe some tips you can

provide to other people that are.

851

: 00:41:57

On their entrepreneurial

journey on success.

852

: 00:42:00

Yeah, we could make an entire

podcast interview just on that alone.

853

: 00:42:06

It's been a day on it.

854

: 00:42:07

It's a loaded question.

855

: 00:42:08

There's a lot, there's

a lot there for sure.

856

: 00:42:11

If I summarize to the key pillars

of what you have to keep in mind,

857

: 00:42:16

when you start a business, the

first thing that's really important.

858

: 00:42:20

So you mentioned not giving

up is important, but not being

859

: 00:42:22

stubborn is important as well.

860

: 00:42:24

So not obsessing about.

861

: 00:42:28

Not giving up on something that doesn't

work is you should give up at some point.

862

: 00:42:32

Like knowing when to give up is

also a skill is also important.

863

: 00:42:36

So I would say don't give up too fast,

but make sure that if you're not giving

864

: 00:42:43

up, what you're creating is going up into

the right in some way, shape or form.

865

: 00:42:48

So if what you're doing is going

up into the right in a way like it,

866

: 00:42:52

yeah, the business is increasing.

867

: 00:42:53

It's only 500 a month more.

868

: 00:42:57

But it is 500 a month more.

869

: 00:42:59

And my goal now next quarter is to do

a month, more than: 2000

870

: 00:43:06

You have to go up into the right.

871

: 00:43:07

You have to feel that you have

to get that feeling of progress.

872

: 00:43:10

If it is progressing.

873

: 00:43:12

And it's probably worth not

giving up and keep working on it.

874

: 00:43:15

So that would be the first thing, but do

give up if there's no progress, if there's

875

: 00:43:19

no progress and you don't pay yourself and

you're miserable, and it's been a year,

876

: 00:43:23

it's probably worth giving up now and

not hurting yourself, obsessing about it.

877

: 00:43:28

That would be the first thing.

878

: 00:43:29

The second thing, which is kind

of linked to the first thing is.

879

: 00:43:32

Be ready to adapt quickly.

880

: 00:43:35

Be ready to change, be okay to change our,

when I look at the first business pivoted

881

: 00:43:40

three times in 10 years, so we did, they

were entirely different three times.

882

: 00:43:44

And Agorapulse pivoted probably twice.

883

: 00:43:48

So the product we have today

has absolutely nothing to do

884

: 00:43:51

with the product we had in 2012.

885

: 00:43:53

Nothing is completely different.

886

: 00:43:54

And.

887

: 00:43:55

The business who succeed are the one

who adapt the best and the fastest.

888

: 00:43:59

So be always on the lookout.

889

: 00:44:01

So who do I need?

890

: 00:44:01

What do I need to change?

891

: 00:44:03

And if the change is small, that's fine.

892

: 00:44:05

If this change is big, that's fine too.

893

: 00:44:07

If you have to make big.

894

: 00:44:08

That changes, like go ahead and do them.

895

: 00:44:12

That the second thing, the third

thing is find a way to learn fast.

896

: 00:44:18

Like you have to learn fast.

897

: 00:44:19

When you start a business, nothing,

it's as, as if when you exit law school

898

: 00:44:23

and you start working for a law firm, I

remember me, nothing, you're absolutely,

899

: 00:44:27

you're clueless and then you go, you

take, you have your first job and then

900

: 00:44:32

you learn, Oh my God, like at such a

speed, like the amount of stuff you

901

: 00:44:36

learn by doing the work is tremendous.

902

: 00:44:39

Building a business is the same thing.

903

: 00:44:41

On day one of building a business,

you have no clue what you're doing.

904

: 00:44:44

And you, you have to find, you have to

find all the ways you can to learn this.

905

: 00:44:48

By doing and by surrounding yourself

with mentors and peers and people

906

: 00:44:53

who are, who have done it and

are a little bit ahead of you.

907

: 00:44:56

And so read books, get people who are

a little bit ahead of you and invite

908

: 00:45:01

them to lunch once a month and ask

them question, I had this problem.

909

: 00:45:04

What do you think?

910

: 00:45:04

Be part of clubs or network groups that

are locals to you so you can see them

911

: 00:45:09

and meet with them on a regular basis.

912

: 00:45:12

Be ready to learn fast because you have

to be aware that you know, nothing, and

913

: 00:45:15

you don't know how to build a business.

914

: 00:45:17

And you don't have no, you don't

know how to grow that business.

915

: 00:45:19

And you will have to

figure it out on the go.

916

: 00:45:21

So I keep telling, I mentor

a bunch of entrepreneurs who

917

: 00:45:24

are tech SaaS entrepreneurs.

918

: 00:45:26

And the one thing I keep telling them

is like, you are not the right person

919

: 00:45:30

to take your business to the next level.

920

: 00:45:32

You're not yet that person.

921

: 00:45:34

Now it has to be your commitment

to become that person.

922

: 00:45:37

So what are you doing

to become that person?

923

: 00:45:39

What's your plan?

924

: 00:45:40

And every entrepreneur should be

asking themselves that question.

925

: 00:45:43

I am not the right, we

are 23, 24 millions now.

926

: 00:45:47

I am not the right person to take

this business to a hundred millions.

927

: 00:45:50

I know that.

928

: 00:45:51

What am I doing to become that person?

929

: 00:45:53

You're becoming that you're going to

do what it takes to become that person.

930

: 00:45:56

You're going to adapt and continue

to learn and being willing to pivot.

931

: 00:46:01

Yeah.

932

: 00:46:01

I think those are such great tips

and advice for entrepreneurs.

933

: 00:46:05

And I appreciate that.

934

: 00:46:06

So thank you for sharing that.

935

: 00:46:07

And is there anything else

about Agorapulse that I didn't

936

: 00:46:11

ask that you'd like to share?

937

: 00:46:13

No, not really.

938

: 00:46:14

I mean, we, we are, despite us

being based in France, we are

939

: 00:46:18

a truly international company.

940

: 00:46:20

We have half of the

companies outside of France.

941

: 00:46:23

We have 30 people in the U S

almost 20 people in Canada.

942

: 00:46:27

Now we have people in Mexico,

in Argentina, in Ireland, in the

943

: 00:46:31

UK, like all over the place and.

944

: 00:46:35

It's an amazing team.

945

: 00:46:36

So if you ever get in touch with our

salespeople or support people, asking

946

: 00:46:41

them questions, you'll see how caring they

are and how helpful and kind and smart.

947

: 00:46:48

You can only know that for sure once

you've had interactions with the team.

948

: 00:46:52

But if you, if any of the listeners ever

have a chance to talk to any of my team

949

: 00:46:57

members, they'll probably feel that.

950

: 00:46:59

Deep level of care and

expertise and willing to help.

951

: 00:47:01

So that's something I'm very proud and

happy about when you build a business.

952

: 00:47:05

I think the, the top of the pleasure

as a business owner and an entrepreneur

953

: 00:47:09

is to wake up in the morning and

start interacting with your team

954

: 00:47:12

and feel like I love that person.

955

: 00:47:14

That's amazing.

956

: 00:47:15

This conversation we just had was so

fulfilling and constructive and helpful.

957

: 00:47:19

And when you feel that day

in and day out, you're in the

958

: 00:47:23

best you're, that's happiness.

959

: 00:47:25

That's what it is.

960

: 00:47:26

People look for happiness.

961

: 00:47:26

That's exactly what it is.

962

: 00:47:27

It's the people you spend your days with.

963

: 00:47:30

You absolutely love doing it with them

because they are a plus in your life.

964

: 00:47:35

Yeah, I love that because it

always comes from the top.

965

: 00:47:39

Right.

966

: 00:47:39

And if that's the culture

that you are promoting, right.

967

: 00:47:43

As the leaders of the organization, I

think the employees see that because

968

: 00:47:47

when you have a support staff, that's

rude or they're lazy or they're whatever.

969

: 00:47:54

And it's a reflection of like top

down like the management because

970

: 00:47:59

they're not being trained properly

or they're not being told like,

971

: 00:48:02

Hey, this is how we operate here.

972

: 00:48:05

This is our culture.

973

: 00:48:06

This is how you treat people.

974

: 00:48:08

This is our mission statement,

our values and what we stand for.

975

: 00:48:13

And that should be

instilled in every single.

976

: 00:48:15

Employee globally.

977

: 00:48:18

And that's like, when you like, for

example, you take the example of Sam

978

: 00:48:22

Altman and the recent open AI development,

or you've heard about all the madness.

979

: 00:48:27

It's like a literally

like a tech soap opera.

980

: 00:48:29

And what you'll notice is like his team

and his staff, they literally have been

981

: 00:48:35

so loyal to him that they all said they're

going to walk out and quit if they don't.

982

: 00:48:41

Reinstate him.

983

: 00:48:42

Right.

984

: 00:48:42

And I actually just did a podcast

episode on that two days ago.

985

: 00:48:46

And because it tells you like that person

is a great leader because he actually

986

: 00:48:50

has the ability to influence people and

to lead them to take action and that

987

: 00:48:56

his team and his staff respects him.

988

: 00:48:59

And I think when you are

leading a big organization and a

989

: 00:49:02

company as CEO, whatever it is.

990

: 00:49:07

I think that it's really important that

your team and your staff respect you

991

: 00:49:12

because if they do There's going to be

more loyalty from them than if they don't

992

: 00:49:18

I think they're not really going to take

pride in the work that they do but it goes

993

: 00:49:23

to show like if you treat your team with

respect and All of those things, they're

994

: 00:49:28

probably going to show it back to people.

995

: 00:49:31

And so that's one piece of advice.

996

: 00:49:32

Treat people the way

you want to be treated.

997

: 00:49:34

That's always a good rule.

998

: 00:49:36

And by the way, sometimes, sometimes that

means that you expect a lot from people

999

: 00:49:40

because I expect a lot from myself.

: 1000

00:49:42,271 --> 00:49:46,121

And when my board comes to me and

is like giving me challenges and

: 1001

00:49:46,121 --> 00:49:51,121

giving me high goals and pushing me

to go beyond my comfort zone, I'm

: 1002

00:49:51,241 --> 00:49:54,441

it's discomfort, but at the same

time, like, okay, that's their role.

: 1003

00:49:54,441 --> 00:49:56,211

And I'm going to, I'm

going to push for that.

: 1004

00:49:56,711 --> 00:49:57,531

And I also.

: 1005

00:49:57,876 --> 00:49:59,226

Do the same thing with my team.

: 1006

00:49:59,226 --> 00:50:02,036

And I think they appreciate

that when they're being pushed

: 1007

00:50:02,566 --> 00:50:04,876

outside of their comfort zone,

because that's where they grow.

: 1008

00:50:05,366 --> 00:50:07,696

So like you, you have

to give them that too.

: 1009

00:50:07,696 --> 00:50:12,116

It's not only being nice, but it's also

being that person is going to push them

: 1010

00:50:12,146 --> 00:50:16,175

to become the best version of themselves,

which sometimes means that you have to.

: 1011

00:50:16,436 --> 00:50:17,316

Push them a little bit.

: 1012

00:50:17,436 --> 00:50:17,666

Yeah.

: 1013

00:50:17,716 --> 00:50:22,086

I think people confuse nice and

being a good leader and being a

: 1014

00:50:22,086 --> 00:50:24,046

good leader is not only being nice.

: 1015

00:50:24,056 --> 00:50:25,846

Sometimes it's also pushing a little bit.

: 1016

00:50:26,516 --> 00:50:26,906

Yeah.

: 1017

00:50:27,126 --> 00:50:27,646

I like that.

: 1018

00:50:27,646 --> 00:50:31,486

I love that pushing them because you're,

you have to push them to do better and

: 1019

00:50:31,486 --> 00:50:36,186

to want more and to set like a higher

bar and higher standards for their

: 1020

00:50:36,186 --> 00:50:38,526

work and for everything that they do.

: 1021

00:50:38,526 --> 00:50:39,396

So I love that.

: 1022

00:50:39,656 --> 00:50:43,366

So I'm sure you have one or two of

these, but do you have a favorite quote?

: 1023

00:50:43,876 --> 00:50:47,356

That you like to live your life

by or that has really inspired

: 1024

00:50:47,356 --> 00:50:48,346

you throughout the years.

: 1025

00:50:50,441 --> 00:50:54,611

I don't really have a quote or a

philosophy of how you live your life.

: 1026

00:50:54,891 --> 00:50:55,181

Yeah.

: 1027

00:50:55,181 --> 00:50:59,591

But the, well, how I live my

life definitely is passion and

: 1028

00:50:59,591 --> 00:51:00,981

the stuff that passionates you.

: 1029

00:51:01,381 --> 00:51:04,751

All of this and any job, by the

way, if you're a top lawyer in a

: 1030

00:51:04,751 --> 00:51:06,731

big firm, your job is hard as hell.

: 1031

00:51:07,281 --> 00:51:09,390

Any job, creating a business.

: 1032

00:51:09,881 --> 00:51:11,401

Life is tough.

: 1033

00:51:11,451 --> 00:51:12,061

It's hard.

: 1034

00:51:12,881 --> 00:51:17,111

If you're not passionate about doing

it, you give up because you're sane.

: 1035

00:51:17,331 --> 00:51:18,231

You don't want to be hurt.

: 1036

00:51:18,281 --> 00:51:19,441

You don't want to feel pain.

: 1037

00:51:19,461 --> 00:51:22,881

So you're not going to do something

that you don't absolutely enjoy doing.

: 1038

00:51:23,181 --> 00:51:27,121

So having the passion for it

and being genuinely happy.

: 1039

00:51:27,336 --> 00:51:29,496

But what you do is absolutely crucial.

: 1040

00:51:30,886 --> 00:51:35,366

Recently, I've been telling my marketing

team a lot about, we've been talking a

: 1041

00:51:35,366 --> 00:51:39,776

lot about marketing attribution, and I

had a lot of pushback of people who said,

: 1042

00:51:39,776 --> 00:51:41,526

yeah, but you cannot measure everything.

: 1043

00:51:41,536 --> 00:51:42,636

You cannot see everything.

: 1044

00:51:42,706 --> 00:51:43,846

What you see is.

: 1045

00:51:44,051 --> 00:51:45,631

Just the tip of the iceberg.

: 1046

00:51:45,641 --> 00:51:49,631

There's so much happening in dark

social and in going, people going to a

: 1047

00:51:49,631 --> 00:51:54,241

mobile on Safari, and then they go to

their desktop on, on Chrome and then

: 1048

00:51:54,251 --> 00:51:56,151

the tracking doesn't work this way.

: 1049

00:51:56,151 --> 00:51:57,011

So you lose it.

: 1050

00:51:57,021 --> 00:51:58,581

So you're never going to

get the attribution, right?

: 1051

00:51:59,151 --> 00:52:03,841

So my, my late, my list, my latest quote

on that was like, yeah, I understand

: 1052

00:52:03,841 --> 00:52:06,951

that tracking is only giving you the

tip of the iceberg, but you know what?

: 1053

00:52:06,981 --> 00:52:07,701

There's no tip.

: 1054

00:52:07,711 --> 00:52:08,771

There's no freaking iceberg.

: 1055

00:52:08,786 --> 00:52:11,196

So you'd better track something.

: 1056

00:52:11,196 --> 00:52:14,456

So at least you can see something and

make decisions based on what you see.

: 1057

00:52:14,836 --> 00:52:17,186

If you see nothing, there's

probably nothing going on.

: 1058

00:52:17,486 --> 00:52:21,986

So if you cannot see the tip of the

iceberg of your marketing and the result

: 1059

00:52:22,006 --> 00:52:24,216

you get, there's probably nothing there.

: 1060

00:52:24,266 --> 00:52:25,616

It's probably not working.

: 1061

00:52:25,626 --> 00:52:29,046

So that was, yeah, if there's no

tip, there's no freaking iceberg.

: 1062

00:52:29,336 --> 00:52:29,936

I like that.

: 1063

00:52:30,806 --> 00:52:31,076

Yeah.

: 1064

00:52:31,551 --> 00:52:32,191

That's perfect.

: 1065

00:52:32,211 --> 00:52:33,161

I love that.

: 1066

00:52:33,191 --> 00:52:33,781

I love that.

: 1067

00:52:34,031 --> 00:52:35,261

This has been amazing.

: 1068

00:52:35,261 --> 00:52:38,661

So we will link, of course,

Agorapulse and the show notes, but

: 1069

00:52:38,661 --> 00:52:42,571

tell the audience where and how they

can connect with you or any other

: 1070

00:52:42,571 --> 00:52:44,431

things that you wanted to promote.

: 1071

00:52:44,431 --> 00:52:47,791

If you have any special promotions

coming up or anything that you

: 1072

00:52:47,791 --> 00:52:50,011

wanted to let everyone know about.

: 1073

00:52:50,541 --> 00:52:50,771

Yeah.

: 1074

00:52:50,871 --> 00:52:54,301

Well, connecting with me the best is

LinkedIn because that's the social

: 1075

00:52:54,301 --> 00:52:55,691

network I'm the most active on.

: 1076

00:52:55,751 --> 00:52:57,881

I'm not so active in the others anymore.

: 1077

00:52:58,606 --> 00:53:04,026

And so you can find me at Emre Garnou,

E R N O U L T E N E R I C on LinkedIn.

: 1078

00:53:04,056 --> 00:53:07,206

And when you invite me, please

add a note to the invitation.

: 1079

00:53:07,206 --> 00:53:09,176

Say, hi, listen to your podcast on X.

: 1080

00:53:09,676 --> 00:53:12,686

That way I know that's a legit invitation.

: 1081

00:53:12,716 --> 00:53:17,676

Cause I get like, I think 25 to 30

invitations a day and I go through them.

: 1082

00:53:17,676 --> 00:53:20,736

But when I don't know them and there's

no, I disregard because otherwise

: 1083

00:53:20,736 --> 00:53:21,806

my LinkedIn is going to be a mess.

: 1084

00:53:22,581 --> 00:53:25,371

And I'll happily accept the invitation.

: 1085

00:53:25,371 --> 00:53:29,571

And if you have any ask for me, I'll re

I'll reply to every invitation that I

: 1086

00:53:29,581 --> 00:53:31,801

haven't asked that's that I can help with.

: 1087

00:53:32,471 --> 00:53:36,791

So that's the way and on, on promotions,

like we have this, we have this Pinterest

: 1088

00:53:36,881 --> 00:53:38,651

event, so it's for agencies only.

: 1089

00:53:38,651 --> 00:53:41,371

So it's probably not going to be that

interesting for most people, but if

: 1090

00:53:41,371 --> 00:53:44,691

you're an agency and you're wondering

how you can leverage Pinterest to.

: 1091

00:53:44,906 --> 00:53:46,586

You better business on social media.

: 1092

00:53:46,586 --> 00:53:50,846

This does that event coming up mid

December, that may be interesting if

: 1093

00:53:50,886 --> 00:53:54,566

the podcast get released before, I

don't know, actually, yeah, actually

: 1094

00:53:54,566 --> 00:53:57,576

it will, so I'm going to ask you to

send me the link to that so I can

: 1095

00:53:57,576 --> 00:53:59,626

actually put it in the show notes.

: 1096

00:53:59,626 --> 00:53:59,856

Yeah.

: 1097

00:54:00,211 --> 00:54:01,061

Yeah, I'll send it to you.

: 1098

00:54:01,131 --> 00:54:01,611

Promise.

: 1099

00:54:01,691 --> 00:54:02,021

Okay.

: 1100

00:54:02,541 --> 00:54:02,801

All right.

: 1101

00:54:02,821 --> 00:54:03,811

Well, this is a pleasure.

: 1102

00:54:03,811 --> 00:54:05,191

Thank you so much for being on the show.

: 1103

00:54:05,431 --> 00:54:06,491

It was a pleasure too.

: 1104

00:54:06,521 --> 00:54:11,401

Well, I, and thank you for working

on Black Friday, which is, which is a

: 1105

00:54:11,431 --> 00:54:13,281

testament of your dedication to your work.

: 1106

00:54:13,281 --> 00:54:15,321

So you probably have a passion

for what you do as well.

: 1107

00:54:15,811 --> 00:54:16,160

I do.

: 1108

00:54:16,161 --> 00:54:17,721

And have a great weekend.

: 1109

00:54:18,321 --> 00:54:19,161

Thank you so much.

: 1110

00:54:19,161 --> 00:54:19,881

Thank you so much.

: 1111

00:54:21,318 --> 00:54:24,528

Thank you for listening to the

Mesmerizing Marketing Podcast.

: 1112

00:54:24,618 --> 00:54:27,948

If you found this episode valuable,

please subscribe to the show so

: 1113

00:54:27,948 --> 00:54:31,248

you don't ever miss an episode and

also share it with your friends.

: 1114

00:54:31,518 --> 00:54:35,058

Dimple would be so grateful if you

could take a minute to leave a review

: 1115

00:54:35,238 --> 00:54:38,658

and visit the podcast website to

check out all the latest episodes.

: 1116

00:54:38,753 --> 00:54:42,833

At www.mesmerizingmarketingpodcast.com.

: 1117

00:54:43,073 --> 00:54:47,543

That's

www.mesmerizingmarketingpodcast.com.

: 1118

00:54:47,633 --> 00:54:49,373

And follow Dimple on Clubhouse.

: 1119

00:54:49,378 --> 00:54:54,413

Her handle is at Marketing Expert and

also join her mesmerizing marketing club.

: 1120

00:54:54,413 --> 00:54:58,433

Also on Clubhouse for live rooms,

on top marketing strategies for

: 1121

00:54:58,433 --> 00:55:03,563

entrepreneurs and business owners who

want to mesmerize their marketing.